Comments on: The God Problem http://bedeviant.com/the-god-problem Faith & Culture Sun, 24 Apr 2011 04:29:56 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Joleen Persichetti http://bedeviant.com/the-god-problem/comment-page-1#comment-4779 Joleen Persichetti Tue, 17 Aug 2010 22:32:43 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1371#comment-4779 I absolutely adore the way you create, It's magnificent and in truth I examine each day time I absolutely adore the way you create, It’s magnificent and in truth I examine each day time

]]> By: martint501 http://bedeviant.com/the-god-problem/comment-page-1#comment-1712 martint501 Wed, 08 Jul 2009 14:59:11 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1371#comment-1712 I guess for me it is in a way the opposite, I can't explain a god In...just doesn't add up in any way. But as we see from looking back on the advances of science....our world gets turned upside down every now and then....but still keeps stepping further and further away from a god explanation. I can't prove the non-existence of any gods or Santa Claus for that matter, so I guess we'll have to end here. I guess for me it is in a way the opposite, I can't explain a god In…just doesn't add up in any way. But as we see from looking back on the advances of science….our world gets turned upside down every now and then….but still keeps stepping further and further away from a god explanation. I can't prove the non-existence of any gods or Santa Claus for that matter, so I guess we'll have to end here.

]]> By: Jason Kramme http://bedeviant.com/the-god-problem/comment-page-1#comment-1706 Jason Kramme Wed, 08 Jul 2009 04:12:41 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1371#comment-1706 I know this might be personal, but what is that search for answers/meaning/etc looking like for you? I know this might be personal, but what is that search for answers/meaning/etc looking like for you?

]]> By: Jason Kramme http://bedeviant.com/the-god-problem/comment-page-1#comment-1705 Jason Kramme Wed, 08 Jul 2009 04:11:23 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1371#comment-1705 Yeah, i hear ya on that. I agree that people should really question what they believe and look into things--especially when those beliefs call for some sort of life committment like Christianity or another religion does. Just a little about me, I was probably a lot like the sort of people you describe as blindly following the pastor when i came into college. I attribute my being that way to simply trusting the people teaching me. I didnt have a reason not to. Once i got to college I finally got into some philosophy courses that forced me to start thinking for myself. I would say that for at least a year in college i wasnt much more than an agnostic. But, I kept looking into it, and as hard as i have tried to not believe, or to explain God away over the past six years, I can't. I don't know what the tipping point of proof is for you, cause that's a subjective matter in the end. But I know what it was for me. Yeah, i hear ya on that. I agree that people should really question what they believe and look into things–especially when those beliefs call for some sort of life committment like Christianity or another religion does. Just a little about me, I was probably a lot like the sort of people you describe as blindly following the pastor when i came into college. I attribute my being that way to simply trusting the people teaching me. I didnt have a reason not to. Once i got to college I finally got into some philosophy courses that forced me to start thinking for myself. I would say that for at least a year in college i wasnt much more than an agnostic. But, I kept looking into it, and as hard as i have tried to not believe, or to explain God away over the past six years, I can't. I don't know what the tipping point of proof is for you, cause that's a subjective matter in the end. But I know what it was for me.

]]> By: martint501 http://bedeviant.com/the-god-problem/comment-page-1#comment-1702 martint501 Wed, 08 Jul 2009 02:17:44 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1371#comment-1702 Really the garden quote to me just says that lack of evidence isn't proof. This is as much an argument for a god as one against...but in truth not an argument at all. The quote doesn't insert doubt into certainty, but challenges the definition of the word certainty....which is used with reckless abandon all over the place. Why is it so easy to be certain? And why is it disproportionately easier to be certain when it comes to religion? I honestly don't know what to expect from a Christian blog, this one seems to be filled with young people, I would hope that at a young age you occasionally look into the mirror and challenge what you believe (I do)....before it just becomes habit to give into whatever your pastor tells you or what you read from an ancient text . I am quite curious to hear some arguments about what it takes for one to be certain about any topic. If I could count the things I WAS certain about ten years ago....whew! Really the garden quote to me just says that lack of evidence isn't proof. This is as much an argument for a god as one against…but in truth not an argument at all. The quote doesn't insert doubt into certainty, but challenges the definition of the word certainty….which is used with reckless abandon all over the place. Why is it so easy to be certain? And why is it disproportionately easier to be certain when it comes to religion? I honestly don't know what to expect from a Christian blog, this one seems to be filled with young people, I would hope that at a young age you occasionally look into the mirror and challenge what you believe (I do)….before it just becomes habit to give into whatever your pastor tells you or what you read from an ancient text . I am quite curious to hear some arguments about what it takes for one to be certain about any topic. If I could count the things I WAS certain about ten years ago….whew!

]]> By: jason kramme http://bedeviant.com/the-god-problem/comment-page-1#comment-1699 jason kramme Wed, 08 Jul 2009 01:05:22 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1371#comment-1699 Yeah, there are a lot of things that we do, processes we adhere to, life-philosophies that we think are right compared to those adopted by others. That in now way, however, means that none of them are right. That conclusion doesn't follow. I know all that argument is meant to do is to insert doubt into certianty, but like i said, i'm not going to stop there. To some extent you have to expect that to come from a Christian blog, right? I know it's probably not good understood in the wider dialogue concerning this stuff, but it is what it is. Also, Anthony Flew, the guy who came up with the invisible gardener argument that you used earlier became an agnostic in the last couple of years. I don't know where you are at with stuff, but maybe read some of the stuff that he wrote about that. Yeah, there are a lot of things that we do, processes we adhere to, life-philosophies that we think are right compared to those adopted by others. That in now way, however, means that none of them are right. That conclusion doesn't follow. I know all that argument is meant to do is to insert doubt into certianty, but like i said, i'm not going to stop there.

To some extent you have to expect that to come from a Christian blog, right? I know it's probably not good understood in the wider dialogue concerning this stuff, but it is what it is.

Also, Anthony Flew, the guy who came up with the invisible gardener argument that you used earlier became an agnostic in the last couple of years. I don't know where you are at with stuff, but maybe read some of the stuff that he wrote about that.

]]> By: martint501 http://bedeviant.com/the-god-problem/comment-page-1#comment-1697 martint501 Tue, 07 Jul 2009 21:51:17 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1371#comment-1697 You certainly aren't alone in those thoughts....and the god that others encounter in their different scripture think that it makes more sense than your scripture and any other system of meaning making. These quotes certainly have an arrogant tone especially when heard through certain ears....but really read the postings here...this same flavor of arrogance fills the room. The great thing about the meaning making of non-theists...is that most submit to the fact that they don't know the answeres...and generally don't make statements like..I'm 100% sure of...that is arrogance. You certainly aren't alone in those thoughts….and the god that others encounter in their different scripture think that it makes more sense than your scripture and any other system of meaning making. These quotes certainly have an arrogant tone especially when heard through certain ears….but really read the postings here…this same flavor of arrogance fills the room. The great thing about the meaning making of non-theists…is that most submit to the fact that they don't know the answeres…and generally don't make statements like..I'm 100% sure of…that is arrogance.

]]> By: Jason Kramme http://bedeviant.com/the-god-problem/comment-page-1#comment-1695 Jason Kramme Tue, 07 Jul 2009 21:31:25 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1371#comment-1695 Those are very Dawkins-esque quotes, for sure. Harris, Hitchens, and Dennett say the same thing in their discussions on faith. Faith as a cop-out or as a means of evading thought and evidence evaluation is a kind of an arrogant thing to say, don't you think? If the Enlightenment has taught us anything, it has taught us that pure epistemological certianty is impossible. There is nothing that we count as knowledge that cannot be doubted. Descartes (Hume) and his buddies taught us that. But, why should we stop there? why be stuck at "i think therefore i am"? I'm not OK with that, and in my search to make meaning of the universe and reality as i experience it, the God that i encounter in Scripture makes more sense than any other system of meaning making--especially those put forth by Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, and Dennett. Those are very Dawkins-esque quotes, for sure. Harris, Hitchens, and Dennett say the same thing in their discussions on faith.

Faith as a cop-out or as a means of evading thought and evidence evaluation is a kind of an arrogant thing to say, don't you think? If the Enlightenment has taught us anything, it has taught us that pure epistemological certianty is impossible. There is nothing that we count as knowledge that cannot be doubted. Descartes (Hume) and his buddies taught us that. But, why should we stop there? why be stuck at "i think therefore i am"? I'm not OK with that, and in my search to make meaning of the universe and reality as i experience it, the God that i encounter in Scripture makes more sense than any other system of meaning making–especially those put forth by Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, and Dennett.

]]> By: martint501 http://bedeviant.com/the-god-problem/comment-page-1#comment-1694 martint501 Tue, 07 Jul 2009 20:05:11 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1371#comment-1694 Two Dawkins quotes spring to mind here....“Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence.” and... "There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?" Two Dawkins quotes spring to mind here….“Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence.”
and…
"There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?"

]]> By: Jason Kramme http://bedeviant.com/the-god-problem/comment-page-1#comment-1692 Jason Kramme Tue, 07 Jul 2009 17:11:25 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1371#comment-1692 Well, what if the definition of a perfect god entails that that god would give you everything that you asked for? But, then someone else says that a perfect God is one that eliminates free-will and your desire to want anything? You're forced to define perfection again. Why can't God just be God? It could go something like, "God is God all the time, for every situation." Well, what if the definition of a perfect god entails that that god would give you everything that you asked for? But, then someone else says that a perfect God is one that eliminates free-will and your desire to want anything? You're forced to define perfection again. Why can't God just be God? It could go something like, "God is God all the time, for every situation."

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