Comments on: Are Reproducing Muslims the Enemy? http://bedeviant.com/reproducing-muslims Faith & Culture Sun, 24 Apr 2011 04:29:56 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Nate Beaird http://bedeviant.com/reproducing-muslims/comment-page-1#comment-1589 Nate Beaird Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:51:19 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1284#comment-1589 Well said! Well said!

]]> By: D.K. Norrisson http://bedeviant.com/reproducing-muslims/comment-page-1#comment-1588 D.K. Norrisson Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:31:17 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1284#comment-1588 Interesting video, and interesting comments. Some thoughts: 1. the video isn't advocating an attack on Islam or Muslims, but evangelism 2. I think that it is meant as a "wake up call," but that videos like this tend to be alarmist and to perhaps scare people rather than wake them up 3. it's unclear to me whether this video is suggesting that Christians need to start having more children? 4. it is clear to me that anyone who is not Muslim needs to come to terms with understanding and learning to relate to Muslims - it is definitely true that they (and others who are different than us, whoever we are) are coming - the world is shrinking, diversity is increasing, and we need to learn to live with others who are different. For me as a Christ-follower, it means that I need to learn to love and share Jesus with others who are different than I am (whether Muslim or other). 5. whether Christian or other, everyone finds it easiest to live in a country where the majority is like them; another challenge that is coming the way of non-Muslims is, can we learn to live in situations where Muslims are either a significant minority, or the majority? 6. as shown in the comments above, one thing that non Muslims tend to be uneasy about is the tendency (or the perceived tendency) for Muslims to impose a Muslim religious framework on society, when they are in control. This is rooted in the Islamic vision not to separate but to join religion and state, and to impose morality (this is also true, to some extent, of "fundamentalist" Christians). A question I have for Muslims in the world today is, can you agree to separate religion and state and to allow freedom of conscience, leaving people free both to practice their faith and to call others to it? I.e., can you embrace the free marketplace of ideas approach to society, and "compete" with others (religious and non) on the basis of appeal rather than forcing people to go along with your Islamic way? In the U.S., all Christian and others (Jewish, etc.) have found that their faith community is healthier with this open "competition" (or standing on their own feet, having to attract people to their faith community). And Muslims need to learn to deal with criticism of their community, even of their religion, through discussion and modeling of the good that you offer, rather than going on a rampage. Thanks, Justin, for posting this, and generating the discussion. D.K. Norrisson Interesting video, and interesting comments. Some thoughts:
1. the video isn't advocating an attack on Islam or Muslims, but evangelism
2. I think that it is meant as a "wake up call," but that videos like this tend to be alarmist and to perhaps scare people rather than wake them up
3. it's unclear to me whether this video is suggesting that Christians need to start having more children?
4. it is clear to me that anyone who is not Muslim needs to come to terms with understanding and learning to relate to Muslims – it is definitely true that they (and others who are different than us, whoever we are) are coming – the world is shrinking, diversity is increasing, and we need to learn to live with others who are different. For me as a Christ-follower, it means that I need to learn to love and share Jesus with others who are different than I am (whether Muslim or other).
5. whether Christian or other, everyone finds it easiest to live in a country where the majority is like them; another challenge that is coming the way of non-Muslims is, can we learn to live in situations where Muslims are either a significant minority, or the majority?
6. as shown in the comments above, one thing that non Muslims tend to be uneasy about is the tendency (or the perceived tendency) for Muslims to impose a Muslim religious framework on society, when they are in control. This is rooted in the Islamic vision not to separate but to join religion and state, and to impose morality (this is also true, to some extent, of "fundamentalist" Christians). A question I have for Muslims in the world today is, can you agree to separate religion and state and to allow freedom of conscience, leaving people free both to practice their faith and to call others to it? I.e., can you embrace the free marketplace of ideas approach to society, and "compete" with others (religious and non) on the basis of appeal rather than forcing people to go along with your Islamic way? In the U.S., all Christian and others (Jewish, etc.) have found that their faith community is healthier with this open "competition" (or standing on their own feet, having to attract people to their faith community). And Muslims need to learn to deal with criticism of their community, even of their religion, through discussion and modeling of the good that you offer, rather than going on a rampage.

Thanks, Justin, for posting this, and generating the discussion.

D.K. Norrisson

]]> By: jason kramme http://bedeviant.com/reproducing-muslims/comment-page-1#comment-1578 jason kramme Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:29:19 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1284#comment-1578 7. It is just as possible to be "culturally Muslim" as it is to be "culturally Christian." The trend towards watered-down faith is happening in Muslim countries too. 7. It is just as possible to be "culturally Muslim" as it is to be "culturally Christian." The trend towards watered-down faith is happening in Muslim countries too.

]]> By: jason kramme http://bedeviant.com/reproducing-muslims/comment-page-1#comment-1577 jason kramme Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:26:36 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1284#comment-1577 some thoughts: 1. All statistical projections are exactly that: projections. 2. Using fear tactics to inspire Christian faith is stupid considering how often God told us not to fear. 3. Europe (and the US) will be agnostic or atheistic before it becomes completley Islamic. 4. The period of time between the reformation and the twentieth century all but ensures that there will never again be a western theocracy. 5. The appeal for western converts to Islam is the life change required and bad associations from history. Our lives need to change and we need to own our history. 6. When it comes to using Scipture, Scripture isn't the problem, Users are. some thoughts:

1. All statistical projections are exactly that: projections.
2. Using fear tactics to inspire Christian faith is stupid considering how often God told us not to fear.
3. Europe (and the US) will be agnostic or atheistic before it becomes completley Islamic.
4. The period of time between the reformation and the twentieth century all but ensures that there will never again be a western theocracy.
5. The appeal for western converts to Islam is the life change required and bad associations from history. Our lives need to change and we need to own our history.
6. When it comes to using Scipture, Scripture isn't the problem, Users are.

]]> By: Justin Wise http://bedeviant.com/reproducing-muslims/comment-page-1#comment-1566 Justin Wise Mon, 22 Jun 2009 16:20:22 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1284#comment-1566 Dean used Scripture, true. Unfortunately, it is painfully out of context. You can quote Scripture to affirm any position one holds, just ask Fred Phelps. The question isn't, "did you quote Scripture?" The question should be, "did you quote Scripture correctly." I don't believe he has. Context is king, not our own interpretations. "Enthusiasm without knowledge is no good; haste makes mistakes." Dean used Scripture, true. Unfortunately, it is painfully out of context. You can quote Scripture to affirm any position one holds, just ask Fred Phelps.

The question isn't, "did you quote Scripture?" The question should be, "did you quote Scripture correctly." I don't believe he has. Context is king, not our own interpretations.

"Enthusiasm without knowledge is no good; haste makes mistakes."

]]> By: Dean http://bedeviant.com/reproducing-muslims/comment-page-1#comment-1563 Dean Sat, 20 Jun 2009 04:11:19 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1284#comment-1563 Agreed, it's not the best comparison. Also agreed on speaking the truth in love, though it may not be popular. Agreed, it's not the best comparison. Also agreed on speaking the truth in love, though it may not be popular.

]]> By: Justin Wise http://bedeviant.com/reproducing-muslims/comment-page-1#comment-1562 Justin Wise Sat, 20 Jun 2009 03:47:11 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1284#comment-1562 "It's all in the intent." Amen. Couldn't have said it better myself. "It's all in the intent." Amen. Couldn't have said it better myself.

]]> By: Nate Beaird http://bedeviant.com/reproducing-muslims/comment-page-1#comment-1561 Nate Beaird Sat, 20 Jun 2009 03:28:39 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1284#comment-1561 Overall, I think Dean and I are being seen as wanting to bash people over the head with the bible and water-board them until they confess Jesus as their savior. I hope you're all smart enough to know better, even though Justin and I may not agree, he can tell you that I'm not even close to that. As far as what Dean has said: He used scripture to back up all his thoughts and statements. Aren't we taught to back up what we say or feel in scripture? By Saying his comments are stupid is to sy The Bible is stupid, and I know you don't mean that, right? Love God. Love People. Tell the World. Overall, I think Dean and I are being seen as wanting to bash people over the head with the bible and water-board them until they confess Jesus as their savior. I hope you're all smart enough to know better, even though Justin and I may not agree, he can tell you that I'm not even close to that.

As far as what Dean has said: He used scripture to back up all his thoughts and statements. Aren't we taught to back up what we say or feel in scripture? By Saying his comments are stupid is to sy The Bible is stupid, and I know you don't mean that, right?

Love God. Love People. Tell the World.

]]> By: Nate Beaird http://bedeviant.com/reproducing-muslims/comment-page-1#comment-1560 Nate Beaird Sat, 20 Jun 2009 03:27:44 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1284#comment-1560 It can be, that's what I said in the very first sentence. Don't take my response out-of-context. The Crusades, OK, I guess you got me there-however, I wasn't there killing people, and I think we can all agree the Dark Ages were...dark. It can be, that's what I said in the very first sentence. Don't take my response out-of-context. The Crusades, OK, I guess you got me there-however, I wasn't there killing people, and I think we can all agree the Dark Ages were…dark.

]]> By: Susan http://bedeviant.com/reproducing-muslims/comment-page-1#comment-1559 Susan Sat, 20 Jun 2009 02:57:24 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1284#comment-1559 Justin, I think it really boils down to intent. What is the intent of the video? Is it to lift up and inspire or is it to cause fear and division? When I explain sin to my kids it goes like this: Sometimes we make mistakes and we hurt someone and we didn't mean to do it...like you stepped on my toe, but it was an accident and you can say sorry and that's all we need to do. But sometimes you haul off and slug your sister. That's not an accident and that's a sin, and for that you need to say sorry to your sister AND to God. It's all in the intent. Justin, I think it really boils down to intent. What is the intent of the video? Is it to lift up and inspire or is it to cause fear and division?

When I explain sin to my kids it goes like this: Sometimes we make mistakes and we hurt someone and we didn't mean to do it…like you stepped on my toe, but it was an accident and you can say sorry and that's all we need to do. But sometimes you haul off and slug your sister. That's not an accident and that's a sin, and for that you need to say sorry to your sister AND to God.

It's all in the intent.

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