Comments on: Can a Church Worker Be Paid On Commission? http://bedeviant.com/church-work-on-commission Faith & Culture Sun, 24 Apr 2011 04:29:56 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Justin Wise http://bedeviant.com/church-work-on-commission/comment-page-1#comment-4537 Justin Wise Tue, 29 Sep 2009 20:28:38 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1784#comment-4537 Thanks Tina! Thanks Tina!

]]> By: Justin Wise http://bedeviant.com/church-work-on-commission/comment-page-1#comment-3307 Justin Wise Tue, 29 Sep 2009 15:28:38 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1784#comment-3307 Thanks Tina! Thanks Tina!

]]> By: @chilli11 http://bedeviant.com/church-work-on-commission/comment-page-1#comment-2377 @chilli11 Sat, 26 Sep 2009 05:58:07 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1784#comment-2377 It's not the way churches pay staff, or the amount of the budget that goes to staff that causes the gulf between the ministerial and lay classes. It's the tendency to think of ministers as "the pros", who do all the work for the church. In wealthy areas they are thought of like hired help, and in poor areas they are the people in charge. But rarely are they thought of as regular people who serve <em>alongside</em> the congregation. That is the source of the "special class" problem. Pastors getting paid by their congregations is a good thing. It places their financial livelihood in the hands of the people they serve, rather than elsewhere. That way their loyalties can remain undivided. It's not the way churches pay staff, or the amount of the budget that goes to staff that causes the gulf between the ministerial and lay classes. It's the tendency to think of ministers as "the pros", who do all the work for the church. In wealthy areas they are thought of like hired help, and in poor areas they are the people in charge. But rarely are they thought of as regular people who serve alongside the congregation. That is the source of the "special class" problem.

Pastors getting paid by their congregations is a good thing. It places their financial livelihood in the hands of the people they serve, rather than elsewhere. That way their loyalties can remain undivided.

]]> By: @chilli11 http://bedeviant.com/church-work-on-commission/comment-page-1#comment-2376 @chilli11 Sat, 26 Sep 2009 05:53:35 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1784#comment-2376 My main problem with the commission idea is that, rather than encouraging pastors to speak the truth even when it's difficult or devisive, it will encourage them to say what needs to be said to keep the money coming. And if we're talking real commission based pay, then it won't only affect the greedy, but the regular guy who has to feed his kids. If the traditional support model is on the way out, which I find unlikely, then the best option left will be bivocational ministers. New methods will arise, but as long as they're tied to performance, the church should look elsewhere. My main problem with the commission idea is that, rather than encouraging pastors to speak the truth even when it's difficult or devisive, it will encourage them to say what needs to be said to keep the money coming. And if we're talking real commission based pay, then it won't only affect the greedy, but the regular guy who has to feed his kids.

If the traditional support model is on the way out, which I find unlikely, then the best option left will be bivocational ministers. New methods will arise, but as long as they're tied to performance, the church should look elsewhere.

]]> By: tina findlay http://bedeviant.com/church-work-on-commission/comment-page-1#comment-2370 tina findlay Fri, 25 Sep 2009 03:05:58 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1784#comment-2370 2 of 2 -- another old idea was to specifically design budgets w/line items tied to goals, values, mission, etc.; to eliminate the disconnect that always exists between reality and rhetoric. then analysis would naturally happen based on this, and it would potentially be like a commission situation, only from the back end, lending itself to the most productive areas & people being rewarded accordingly. but then again, it's a slippery slope to think of ministry with personal outcome $ goals in mind, to keep the godly aspects of this while avoiding the potential pitfalls. also there's not enough space here to talk about the development of additional revenue streams both as a church body and as individuals which could, and actually MUST, contribute to future ministry revenue. but basically this paragraph was my way of saying, i get where you're coming from, and it almost clicks, but could maybe stand a tiny dose of perspective. good luck processing it all through... peace, tina ps--congrats on your sweet new baby boy! 2 of 2 — another old idea was to specifically design budgets w/line items tied to goals, values, mission, etc.; to eliminate the disconnect that always exists between reality and rhetoric. then analysis would naturally happen based on this, and it would potentially be like a commission situation, only from the back end, lending itself to the most productive areas & people being rewarded accordingly. but then again, it's a slippery slope to think of ministry with personal outcome $ goals in mind, to keep the godly aspects of this while avoiding the potential pitfalls. also there's not enough space here to talk about the development of additional revenue streams both as a church body and as individuals which could, and actually MUST, contribute to future ministry revenue. but basically this paragraph was my way of saying, i get where you're coming from, and it almost clicks, but could maybe stand a tiny dose of perspective. good luck processing it all through…

peace, tina
ps–congrats on your sweet new baby boy!

]]> By: tina findlay http://bedeviant.com/church-work-on-commission/comment-page-1#comment-2369 tina findlay Fri, 25 Sep 2009 03:04:33 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1784#comment-2369 1 of 2 -- in my old ministry days i initiated dialogue on the commission principle, albeit not individual commissions but rather in the context of the whole, collective butts-in-the-seats and money-in-the-bank goals. these are the two real goals of a good share of houses of pseudo-worship, as if that growth automatically represents godly fruitfulness. that to me is the danger of the commission idea. as much as i believe some motivation/accountability is needed for a "fruit-bearing" focus, i also believe it's a trap to equate increase of cash and/or butts as proof of commission-worthy godliness. peace, tina ps--congrats on your sweet new baby boy! 1 of 2 — in my old ministry days i initiated dialogue on the commission principle, albeit not individual commissions but rather in the context of the whole, collective butts-in-the-seats and money-in-the-bank goals. these are the two real goals of a good share of houses of pseudo-worship, as if that growth automatically represents godly fruitfulness. that to me is the danger of the commission idea. as much as i believe some motivation/accountability is needed for a "fruit-bearing" focus, i also believe it's a trap to equate increase of cash and/or butts as proof of commission-worthy godliness.

peace, tina
ps–congrats on your sweet new baby boy!

]]> By: evdaddy http://bedeviant.com/church-work-on-commission/comment-page-1#comment-2366 evdaddy Fri, 25 Sep 2009 02:10:05 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1784#comment-2366 here is info about the non-profit i lead - <a href="http://www.parkviewclc.com" target="_blank">www.parkviewclc.com</a> my problem has been more philosophical. it bothers me that so much of a church's budget goes to staffing which seems to create a special class. if pastors were able to generate income, directly or indirectly, while still allowing the church to be able to focus funds on their mission, it would make me feel a lot better. here is info about the non-profit i lead – http://www.parkviewclc.com

my problem has been more philosophical. it bothers me that so much of a church's budget goes to staffing which seems to create a special class. if pastors were able to generate income, directly or indirectly, while still allowing the church to be able to focus funds on their mission, it would make me feel a lot better.

]]> By: evdaddy http://bedeviant.com/church-work-on-commission/comment-page-1#comment-2367 evdaddy Fri, 25 Sep 2009 02:10:05 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1784#comment-2367 here is info about the non-profit i lead - <a href="http://www.parkviewclc.com" target="_blank">www.parkviewclc.com</a> my problem has been more philosophical. it bothers me that so much of a church's budget goes to staffing which seems to create a special class. if pastors were able to generate income, directly or indirectly, while still allowing the church to be able to focus funds on their mission, it would make me feel a lot better. here is info about the non-profit i lead – http://www.parkviewclc.com

my problem has been more philosophical. it bothers me that so much of a church's budget goes to staffing which seems to create a special class. if pastors were able to generate income, directly or indirectly, while still allowing the church to be able to focus funds on their mission, it would make me feel a lot better.

]]> By: evdaddy http://bedeviant.com/church-work-on-commission/comment-page-1#comment-2368 evdaddy Fri, 25 Sep 2009 02:10:05 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1784#comment-2368 here is info about the non-profit i lead - <a href="http://www.parkviewclc.com" target="_blank">www.parkviewclc.com</a> my problem has been more philosophical. it bothers me that so much of a church's budget goes to staffing which seems to create a special class. if pastors were able to generate income, directly or indirectly, while still allowing the church to be able to focus funds on their mission, it would make me feel a lot better. here is info about the non-profit i lead – http://www.parkviewclc.com

my problem has been more philosophical. it bothers me that so much of a church's budget goes to staffing which seems to create a special class. if pastors were able to generate income, directly or indirectly, while still allowing the church to be able to focus funds on their mission, it would make me feel a lot better.

]]> By: Justin Wise http://bedeviant.com/church-work-on-commission/comment-page-1#comment-2363 Justin Wise Fri, 25 Sep 2009 00:39:40 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1784#comment-2363 What's the nature of your non-profit? Also, what made you uncomfortable about the pay structure at the church you were at? What's the nature of your non-profit? Also, what made you uncomfortable about the pay structure at the church you were at?

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