Comments on: The 21st Century Church: Income Generating Strategies Pt. 2 http://bedeviant.com/21st-income-2 Faith & Culture Sun, 24 Apr 2011 04:29:56 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: maryland chiropractor http://bedeviant.com/21st-income-2/comment-page-1#comment-4818 maryland chiropractor Sat, 21 Aug 2010 17:46:13 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1024#comment-4818 Very informative post, I just added you to my Google News Reader. Keep up the good work Look forward to reading more from you in the future. Very informative post, I just added you to my Google News Reader. Keep up the good work Look forward to reading more from you in the future.

]]> By: Sam Mahlstadt http://bedeviant.com/21st-income-2/comment-page-1#comment-1318 Sam Mahlstadt Sat, 23 May 2009 12:48:02 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1024#comment-1318 Lively discussion going on here, great thoughts. Justin, thank you for this series of posts, these are the issues we must reimagine as the church. Money is tricky because the church has a shaky history with stewardship, which is the real issue here. Stewardship is about the heart. Solomon was an awful example of someone using money well, because be built a materialisic and militaristic empire that seperated him from God. But, we have been called to create culture, and show people Jesus. This takes money. Jesus didn't live off the kindness of strangers, he lived off their contributions to his cause. Let's get real, the church should be creating the greatest thinkers and producers in the world. Let's do this thing. Lively discussion going on here, great thoughts. Justin, thank you for this series of posts, these are the issues we must reimagine as the church. Money is tricky because the church has a shaky history with stewardship, which is the real issue here. Stewardship is about the heart. Solomon was an awful example of someone using money well, because be built a materialisic and militaristic empire that seperated him from God. But, we have been called to create culture, and show people Jesus. This takes money. Jesus didn’t live off the kindness of strangers, he lived off their contributions to his cause. Let’s get real, the church should be creating the greatest thinkers and producers in the world. Let’s do this thing.

]]> By: God at play http://bedeviant.com/21st-income-2/comment-page-1#comment-1245 God at play Mon, 18 May 2009 17:38:19 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1024#comment-1245 Ahh I misunderstood then. Glad to see that's where you were headed Danny. Continue on :) Ahh I misunderstood then. Glad to see that's where you were headed Danny. Continue on :)

]]> By: Dan Bryan http://bedeviant.com/21st-income-2/comment-page-1#comment-1241 Dan Bryan Sun, 17 May 2009 00:44:29 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1024#comment-1241 Danny, Thanks for the feedback. You and I agree about not compromising, but I also think you've missed me slightly. I think there's a place for both of things we're talking about. I read through some of your other comments, sounds like you're up to some awesome stuff - keep it up. I can't go with you to the place that says we all need to approach it exactly as you have - don't want to debate that here (you can follow my link to reach me). And sorry bro, I don't live in Iowa - or I'd love to look you up. Dan Danny,

Thanks for the feedback. You and I agree about not compromising, but I also think you've missed me slightly. I think there's a place for both of things we're talking about.
I read through some of your other comments, sounds like you're up to some awesome stuff – keep it up. I can't go with you to the place that says we all need to approach it exactly as you have – don't want to debate that here (you can follow my link to reach me). And sorry bro, I don't live in Iowa – or I'd love to look you up.

Dan

]]> By: jason kramme http://bedeviant.com/21st-income-2/comment-page-1#comment-1240 jason kramme Sat, 16 May 2009 21:42:53 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1024#comment-1240 In this case, a real challenge would be to visualize what the "church" would look like under these circumstances. Removing the false distinction between day to day life and church life would be a good place to start. In this case, a real challenge would be to visualize what the "church" would look like under these circumstances. Removing the false distinction between day to day life and church life would be a good place to start.

]]> By: jason kramme http://bedeviant.com/21st-income-2/comment-page-1#comment-1239 jason kramme Sat, 16 May 2009 21:42:44 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1024#comment-1239 Danny & Tracy! Hey! I've been keeping up with the effort you two have going. Keep up the good work! You too Justin! As I have been thinking about this issue, I think that the bottom line lies at your definition of church. The institutional church as an institution located in the world where money gets results needs to find ways to raise money. Gotta pay those taxes, etc. But, if you define church as that unique collection of people united by faith in Christ and called to the ends of the earth, then things are much different. When we define things this way, the problem then becomes how we get the church (people) to be the church outside of the church (institution). Ideally, we would see a whole-sale difference between Christians and non-believers, but we don't. Sin is very real and it makes us very self-centered. In this situation, the institutional church has a lot of value as it mobilizes Christians and directs them to the world. I guess the trick would be to have this mechanism be free. Danny & Tracy! Hey! I've been keeping up with the effort you two have going. Keep up the good work! You too Justin!

As I have been thinking about this issue, I think that the bottom line lies at your definition of church. The institutional church as an institution located in the world where money gets results needs to find ways to raise money. Gotta pay those taxes, etc. But, if you define church as that unique collection of people united by faith in Christ and called to the ends of the earth, then things are much different. When we define things this way, the problem then becomes how we get the church (people) to be the church outside of the church (institution). Ideally, we would see a whole-sale difference between Christians and non-believers, but we don't. Sin is very real and it makes us very self-centered. In this situation, the institutional church has a lot of value as it mobilizes Christians and directs them to the world. I guess the trick would be to have this mechanism be free.

]]> By: Anonymous http://bedeviant.com/21st-income-2/comment-page-1#comment-1237 Anonymous Sat, 16 May 2009 04:11:12 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1024#comment-1237 So either way if your poor or rich everyone should give accordingly to what God asks of them and then let him do the rest. The MOST important thing if you are poor or rich is what your relationship is like with God. Some people are blessed with money and some aren't. With that being said I believe a person who is rich should live "simply." Simplicity is key. Because who knows when the Lord might ask a person to give it all away? Or what if he says, sell all your possessions because I’m going to take to you to Africa.Which people should want too if that is what the Lord asks. Don’t live above means. Luke 12:47-48 "And a servant who knows what the master wants, but isn’t prepared and doesn’t carry out those instructions, will be severely punished. But someone who doesn't know, and then does something wrong will only be punished lightly. When someone has been given much, much will be required in return: and when someone is entrusted with much, even more will be required. He knows EXACTLY what a person needs and will not with hold anything great from any follower. For he cares for us. Rich or poor. We're blessed either way. So either way if your poor or rich everyone should give accordingly to what God asks of them and then let him do the rest. The MOST important thing if you are poor or rich is what your relationship is like with God. Some people are blessed with money and some aren't. With that being said I believe a person who is rich should live "simply." Simplicity is key. Because who knows when the Lord might ask a person to give it all away? Or what if he says, sell all your possessions because I’m going to take to you to Africa.Which people should want too if that is what the Lord asks. Don’t live above means.
Luke 12:47-48
"And a servant who knows what the master wants, but isn’t prepared and doesn’t carry out those instructions, will be severely punished. But someone who doesn't know, and then does something wrong will only be punished lightly. When someone has been given much, much will be required in return: and when someone is entrusted with much, even more will be required.

He knows EXACTLY what a person needs and will not with hold anything great from any follower. For he cares for us. Rich or poor. We're blessed either way.

]]> By: Anonymous http://bedeviant.com/21st-income-2/comment-page-1#comment-1236 Anonymous Sat, 16 May 2009 04:09:27 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1024#comment-1236 Then there’s a person like David in the bible, who once was a lowly Shepard that became a RICH King and who might I add, was very obedient to Christ, listened to God and had a relationship with him. His riches were then passed down to Solomon who then built temples and what not.....that was Christ’s calling he had for that family. Now Jesus was poor because I believe that God wanted him to be stripped away from every earthly thing. Psychological wise people think good things about a person who is rich and good-looking and are therefore more "accepting" of a person. Which scriptures leads us to believe that Jesus maybe have not been the hottie across the street or the foxy carpenter. Jesus wanted to be accepted by who he was in God and wanted to reach people by love. Then there’s a person like David in the bible, who once was a lowly Shepard that became a RICH King and who might I add, was very obedient to Christ, listened to God and had a relationship with him. His riches were then passed down to Solomon who then built temples and what not…..that was Christ’s calling he had for that family.
Now Jesus was poor because I believe that God wanted him to be stripped away from
every earthly thing. Psychological wise people think good things about a person who is rich and good-looking and are therefore more "accepting" of a person. Which scriptures leads us to believe that Jesus maybe have not been the hottie across the street or the foxy carpenter.
Jesus wanted to be accepted by who he was in God and wanted to reach people by love.

]]> By: Anonymous http://bedeviant.com/21st-income-2/comment-page-1#comment-1235 Anonymous Sat, 16 May 2009 04:04:49 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1024#comment-1235 I think it's more to do with the condition of the heart when it comes to making money and also you’re calling that God has for your life. There's the example of the man coming up to Jesus and asking how he could follow him and Jesus basically said give all your wealth away and come follow me. The man wept because he didn't want to give it away. Obviously there was an issue with the condition of that man's heart and his relationship with Jesus. Or the parable of the man who produced fine crops and ran out of room so decided to build big barns to store up his fine goods so he could "relax" and not "worry." But God replied "You fool! You will die this very night. Then who will get everything you worked for?"The man of that story also had an issue with his heart because he was “worrying” about his next meal or and whether the Lord would provide for him if he had given some away. Luke 12: 21 Yes, a person is a fool to store up earthly wealth but not have a rich relationship with God. I think it's more to do with the condition of the heart when it comes to making money and also you’re calling that God has for your life.
There's the example of the man coming up to Jesus and asking how he could follow him and Jesus basically said give all your wealth away and come follow me. The man wept because he didn't want to give it away.
Obviously there was an issue with the condition of that man's heart and his relationship with Jesus.
Or the parable of the man who produced fine crops and ran out of room so decided to build big barns to store up his fine goods so he could "relax" and not "worry."
But God replied "You fool! You will die this very night. Then who will get everything you worked for?"The man of that story also had an issue with his heart because he was “worrying” about his next meal or and whether the Lord would provide for him if he had given some away.

Luke 12: 21 Yes, a person is a fool to store up earthly wealth but not have a rich relationship with God.

]]> By: Danny Heggen http://bedeviant.com/21st-income-2/comment-page-1#comment-1234 Danny Heggen Sat, 16 May 2009 03:30:52 +0000 http://www.bedeviant.com/?p=1024#comment-1234 Hey Dave, Please explain to me who Jesus healed, fed, visited, taught, opened the hearts of, clothed, and did lunch with. To suggest that theologizing our way into poverty isn't doing anyone any good, is to suggest we can solve an issue without actually experiencing it, that we can feed someone who is hungry or clothe someone who is naked through prayer alone and not being the hands that serve. I know we are off the topic now from the original topic of Justin's blog. So I don't want to digress any further. In order to create the ideal world described (one with affordable medical, etc.), there needs to be a faith in God that what is needed will be provided. Would you still do your work for free? Why wait to get paid when you can respond immediately with what you've already been given? As for being "broke with good intentions": I've been incredibly blessed by the Lord: I'm a two-time published author, have traveled the world, graduated with honors, am surrounded by a loving community, volunteer 80 hours a month, and am in the midst of starting a ministry on my own block by simply feeding breakfast to hungry children waiting in a welfare line. By the way, I'm 23 and work 6 hours a week. And I struggle to get by with money. But I love the Lord, glory to Him for all that He provides. The Lord gives me good intentions. Danny Heggen Hey Dave,

Please explain to me who Jesus healed, fed, visited, taught, opened the hearts of, clothed, and did lunch with. To suggest that theologizing our way into poverty isn't doing anyone any good, is to suggest we can solve an issue without actually experiencing it, that we can feed someone who is hungry or clothe someone who is naked through prayer alone and not being the hands that serve.

I know we are off the topic now from the original topic of Justin's blog. So I don't want to digress any further.

In order to create the ideal world described (one with affordable medical, etc.), there needs to be a faith in God that what is needed will be provided. Would you still do your work for free? Why wait to get paid when you can respond immediately with what you've already been given?

As for being "broke with good intentions": I've been incredibly blessed by the Lord: I'm a two-time published author, have traveled the world, graduated with honors, am surrounded by a loving community, volunteer 80 hours a month, and am in the midst of starting a ministry on my own block by simply feeding breakfast to hungry children waiting in a welfare line. By the way, I'm 23 and work 6 hours a week. And I struggle to get by with money. But I love the Lord, glory to Him for all that He provides. The Lord gives me good intentions.

Danny Heggen

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